College Debt forgiveness - Why? Why not, for example, car debt forgiveness? House? All?

The current rage is the notion of absolving debtors of their school debt. But the average school debtor pays about $350 a month on their school debt… while the average car purchasing debtor pays about $360 a month on their car debt… and the average home debtor pays about $850 a month in their home debt…

So why not absolve, instead, all car debtors? Wouldn’t that be more useful?

Or why not absolve, instead, all home debtors? Same question.

I honestly don’t get it. Is it free college? A onetime forgiveness, so those in college are screwed? Is it a writeoff? Federal loans only?

I mean, hell, if that’s the way the wind blows- immortal youth for the old!

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Oh, dang, that was too obvious.

Nevermind, nix the entire post.

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People have always bought cars and houses and gone into debt as a result. Only fairly recently have universities been able to charge exorbitant costs for tuition, partially to pay for their ubiquitous DIE bureaucracies, while at the same time the government has decided to act as the first lender in the history of mankind that gives no consideration to creditworthiness. This has resulted in crippling levels of college debt for people with useless degrees, most of which are Biden voters.

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You can’t repo an education, at least not yet…

If you forced universities to co-sign the loans these kids are getting they could then void their education credentials if they chose not to pay their bill. Put a little QR code on their diploma, scan it and see if it is actually valid and paid up.

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Consider: what would a car manufacturer charge for a car if the government guaranteed the consumer loan? Would consumers find themselves taking out unreasonably large loans to own a car, which in many living situations is a necessity?

Is that a problem with college debt?

From personal experience, when I got out of college, I was broke (broke) and stayed that way for a few years. No health insurance of any kind, no credit card, I didn’t even have a savings account; there was nothing to put into it. It wasn’t because I didn’t have a job or wasn’t looking for work (which I eventually found, although it meant abandoning my degree). It was because my field was turning over (journalism), and jobs didn’t pay. Predictably, I defaulted on the loan, which destroyed my credit into my early 30s (you want to see marginalization, walk in with a sub-500 credit score). The good ol’ alma mater completely washed their hands of the matter (though they never stop sending requests for alumni donations). Deal with the government, thanks for the memories and bye now.

Luckily for me, turning my computer programming hobby into a career paid off, so everybody got their money, and I stabilized things. But considering what I got out of the college deal, I can say for a fact that I wouldn’t go that way again. A-la-carte education is what the vast majority of people need. Not “Myth, Symbol, Fable” and “Renaissance Art I - II”.

And it does irk me that even though I was a “victim” of that system, nobody’s talking about righting that past wrong. I’m not sure I see today’s college grad any more challenged than a college grad circa the mid-90s when commencement speeches were mentioning how difficult it would be to find a job in fields flooded with college grads. And today’s student hasn’t already given up two decades of compound savings and retirement plan interest.

Wipe the interest, alter the effect late payments can have on credit, whatever; sure, soften the blow. But wipe it all away? That seems fair to politicians looking to curry the youth vote. But if you do the math, is there any reason that a reasonable price for college can’t be paid if colleges charge a reasonable tuition that requires a reasonable loan?

It almost seems as if the banks are doing to college what they’ve done to houses; hmm, how can we more or less work and rework the principle to corner the loan recipient into forever paying down the asset they used the funds for?

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I agree. If the universities were forced to co-sign they’d be on the hook when the kids head into bankruptcy. Which would discourage the schools from lending money to seat-warmers in the first place.

And treat education loans the same as any other consumer loans w/r to bankruptcy.

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That might be called “brain drain.”

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ON the face, this seems right. But the unintended backside is that it even more commoditizes the value of the degree. “Hey, I have the debt associated with a Yalie degree! I offer you my indentured service in exchange for the cost of the degree.” But then the next steo is that the employer begins to negotiate directly with the school. “We will pay full cost of housing and tuition, etc., and get first round draft picks.”

If is is not worth paying for, then why do you want it.

I think there is reasonable argument for wiping out some of the interest and asking universities to pay some of the bill, if they showed a pattern of misleading students into courses which weren’t likely to lead to productive employment. Overall, you guys should move to a graduate contribution scheme, like we have here in the UK- with one exception. In the UK, you only start to repay after you begin to earn above a certain threshold. Get the actuarials involved- make the threshold dependent on the degree you graduate with.

If a student realises that they will have to start to repay as soon as they hit $3,000 for a degree in Lesbian Dance Theory, but only start repaying on an Engineering degree after they are earning $30,000, then it will naturally push students towards taking degrees that are useful to society. I would also outsource the administration of the loans to the banks, because they are cheaper than government.

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I would have no problem with universities and businesses working out deals; no decent business after all is going to subsidize the education of the feckless. They’ll pick and choose the students they think show potential, and then work out a deal with the student to pay it back by a period of employment. The military does that, iirc, and I know my cousin got his law school paid for by his employer (a big US civil engineering company)—he had to promise several years of practicing for them after he passed the bar. His undergrad had been paid for by the military, iirc. Everybody benefited.

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Yes, but you’re not talking about lawyers or engineers. You’re talking about people with social science degrees. In other words, Starbuck employees. No way they’ll ever pay that $200,000 college debt for their degree in advanced socialist nonsense without debt forgiveness.

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It is worth it for one reason. That mythological object, the college degree - no matter in what, no matter from which college - is the one thing that separates them from the worthless deplorables.

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That, I think, is entirely fair and good. Obviously, I oppose, as I am sure you do too, the notion of free education in general (after all, free education is misnomer: education costs time, resources, equipment, and labor). But I do rather dislike this notion that universities are simply businesses, or that capitalism is simply about profit. I feel it’s best if the kind of capitalism that exists does so to keep a society afloat. Society needs new labor and resources, so why squander people with viable skills? I thought Trump’s bid to boost vocational schools and technical colleges was great. I think universities also sometimes stretch out the length of some courses, and add too many courses in “underwater basket weaving”. While universities should be justly compensated, it would be great if they were streamlined, so that the fees were less, and the degrees more valuable.

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Did the UK copy that system off us here in Oz or did we copy it off them? Either way it works well, because the units are all public institutions. Is this one situation where government ownership works better, because it is not corrupted by crony capitalism like it is in the US?

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Seriously. Can you actually get degrees in such things? My God.

You appear to have gotten to the core of it Ilia.
I suppose Biden may consider these voters worthy of such payment. Developing internal academia for the next generation and all that…

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Beats the hell out of working for a living. :upside_down_face:

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The War on Personal Responsibility continues. Not only can you have your cake and eat it too, you don’t even need to bring your plate and fork to the sink.

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To be perfectly fair to the students, most of them have a good claim to not have to pay due to fraud. They agreed to have an education which would give them a market advantage, and instead most received progressive brainwashing which qualified them for a Starbucks job. I’d be pissed if I had to pay 200 grand for that, too.

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