The White House’s Specious Gender Manifesto

She’s always been feisty, but she was more reasonable. We were allies against the fundamentalist ‘free market’ people that used to dominate QC. We used to be friends. I guess she’s just gone tribal.


PM to avoid the bad form of talking about people in public.


Ooops, the above was supposed to be a PM. Never mind. Besides dolphins always discuss things like this in public anyway – there are no secrets in the pod.


We are on the war path aren’t we? Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned…… :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Online surveys of parental opinion (on anti trans websites no less :grimacing:) rate as sound science do they? Methodology matters & papers don’t necessarily have to be withdrawn because of weak ones. And it’s “famously” discredited because anyone following the issue knows this although some don’t like to admit it…

Lisa Littman, as an adjunct assistant professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, created the term based on an online survey of parents on three anti-transgender websites who believed that their teenage children had suddenly manifested symptoms of gender dysphoria and begun identifying as transgender simultaneously with other children in their peer group.[4][5][6] Littman speculated that rapid onset of gender dysphoria could be a “social coping mechanism” for other disorders.[1]


Scorned? Never!

So then it is discredited, not by virtue of having failed the objective tests, but by virtue of you not agreeing with it?

Speaking of biased websites, TC is practically the woke choir singing to itself. ROGD is simply a fact on the ground, what causes it is debatable but that a disorder that used to be very rare has almost overnight increased by – Geary has the actual number @Geary_Johansen2020 – what? thousands of percent, has all the features of a fad. One sees the same thing with all the girls falling for Justin Beber at the same time.


Its a study for which the basis for conclusion rests on the results of 164 applicants who completed an online questionnaire posted on 3 websites. Additionally they were selected without their children (who are the sole reason for the study) even being spoken too.

In my opinion, as a body of work which claims to have discovered an entirely new form of gender dysphoria the study is not so much “discredited” as it is “junk”. No one on this forum would accept such evidence from their interlocutor. Nearly any effect, real or imaginary, could be proven in such a way.

It does seem to me that the study is reputable insofar as the data gathering techniques that it uses are common in many papers (especially in the social sciences). But it needs to be understood for what it is. It is a intriguing hypothesis supported by some initial research. Nothing more.

This paper is a starting point for additional quality research. However, standing on its own in defense of its hypothesis it seems like very weak tea to me.


You wish. I’m not sure if it’s the law anywhere yet, but the radical abortionistas that I hear are saying that abortion on demand should be the rule except for sex selection or any hypothetical ‘gay gene’ and that would of course apply to any hypothetical trans gene.

I’d like yourself and @PassionWithReason to duke this out, I don’t know enough about this ‘study’ to comment.

Your assessment seems entirely unbiased and reasonable. Nothing wrong with preliminary investigations of this sort, but one must be clear as to what is proven and what is not proven. However my common sense tells me that the huge spike in GD that we’ve seen is unlikely to be truly clinical and could objectively be called ‘rapid onset’. On the face of it, it looks like a fad:

… and the fact that it is so prominent in the media would both validate that view, and propel it:


These quick-hunt graphs off the web are hardly satisfactory but that’s how we do things now – there’s thousands of them and you pick the ones you like. How bout this one:

If this was happening today:

… righties would be saying it’s disease, the woke would be saying it’s a lifestyle choice/transition and should be cultivated from kindergarten on – dunno, do Rapid Onset Beatle-manic girls need surgery? Just askin’ – and centrists would be saying it’s a fad and will pass and no drugs or surgery are indicated and most of the girls there are there because all the other girls are there and one doesn’t want to be left out. What we can be sure of is that the Beatles made a lot of money then and the surgeons are making a lot of money now.


I agree completely. With just a little thinking it becomes very likely that impressionable young people, especially girls, could be taken in by this sort of thing. Girls, even more so than boys, seem to follow group fads quite closely. As someone (you?) mentioned above, it is this same tendency on display when they swoon over Justin Bieber (or the Beatles, or Elvis, ect…) However that is entirely unrelated to whether studies into the phenomena are reputable.

I do not know anything more about this study that you do. I just followed the links @Ella-B presented and they make a pretty strong case. I did what I could to double check that the data collection methodology seems to be as they describe it.

I would never accept such a study from someone I was arguing with, so this one should be treated the same.


Given that the “treatment” involves genital mutilation / removal in children, thereby removing any opportunity they will ever have to 1) experience orgasm and 2) procreate, the bar must be astronomically high. So far it isn’t even close.

No clinician should touch this with a ten-foot pole.


Sure. An imperfect ‘study’ is just that whether we are inclined to agree with it or not. The more I like it, the more critical I should be, least I build my house on shifting sand. Conservatives like to be sure.

One of my favorite open questions is how an informed ‘amateur’ – a voter, who is sorta obliged to come to some conclusion even tho he knows very well that he’s at best, only partially informed – can still make the right call. Who is bullshitting me? There are red flags we can learn to spot. And we know the smell of someone who is not grinding an axe. One rule: hear both sides. If that study was junk, let’s hear a debunker and an advocate duke it out. I wish QC hosted more debates.

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I honestly think that future generations will look back on this little episode in moral hysteria and consider it no better than the Salem witch hunt. Both rely on spectral evidence and the performance-fits of children. Only thing is that this time it’s the kids themselves who get sacrificed.


Yes and no. There should be a reckoning in the future. Doctors who have participated in this charade should be stripped of their medical licenses. Medical boards should be disbanded completely, and prison sentences should be meted out. This won’t happen. These crimes against humanity will never be prosecuted. And so, anyone who stands in opposition, as I do, should remain permanently hostile and implacable to the very notion of prepubescent gender transitioning. There will be no justice to be found on behalf of these children once the truth is known. There will be obfuscation, dithering, lying, and all the typical bullshit that comes from the doctrinaire left. They will apply faulty reasoning to defend their lies and the useful idiots will find high-paying consultancy jobs. And, since there exists neither heaven, nor hell, these brutes will never, ever, be held to any account. Opposition to this madness should be immediate and relentless.


Please go back and reread the conversation that Ray and I were having. I was very clear that my position is that a study conducted by gathering 164 people via a web survey is not a study any of us would consider worth anything.

The rest of your diatribe is arguing against positions I do not hold, on points I did not make.


I don’t suppose that you hold any points at all. I do. I assert my own points. Disagree with them as you will. I never deemed any points of yours to be at issue. I interjected a thought. I am happy to refrain from further disruptions to your conversation.

I’m not so pessimistic. The issue will go before the courts not the doctrinaire left. A judge of sound mind and a jury of enraged citizens might see to it that justice is done, at least as far as money goes.

So you did. You gave us another iteration of you standard rant which was peripheral to what Pat was saying. It’s a good rant, I basically agree with it, but we needn’t have it injected into everything. Once or twice per thread should suffice. The best part of it is:

This does bear repetition – woke is a religion that believes in an Identity Soul who’s main trait is Gender of which there are 120 (and counting) to choose from and which signifies nothing other than the signification itself while at the same time pretending to refer to something real and simultaneously standing in exact denial of reality. The most impenetrable of all religions. Like Gnosticism.


I will determine how many times I rant in any forum; likewise my own level of decorum. I am quite confident in my own judgment on these matters.

Of course. And others will determine whether they think it worthwhile to inform you that the rants can be excessive. You will then determine whether or not you’ll heed the suggestion. Being a naturally contrary sort of guy perhaps you won’t.


You may earn your “Hall Monitor” sash and badge from Claire yet!

“Cetaceans are the school-marms of the sea…”
Jacques Cousteau

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Did he really say that? True of course. It’s hard to be humble when you are the best and the smartest and the most beautiful creature that the Goddess made – in her own image. And the best behaved. There is peace in the pod. We would like to help the monkeys to behave better, no doubt about it.


Home hath no purry like a woman scrawned.

What was the definition of ‘woman’ again?

Brave progress in the trans world:

Trans Woman ‘Breastfeeds’ Newborn

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Last week, The Daily Mail reported the story of a trans woman, Jennifer Buckley, who has been attempting to “breastfeed” their infant to feel more feminine. Buckley said, “To know I could breastfeed my own child and have that experience, I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to know what it was like to be a mum and breastfeed.”

Despite several doctors warning Buckley not to attempt breastfeeding given the “experimental” nature of the act for males, Buckley decided to pursue it anyway. In order to produce “milk,” Buckley took increased amounts of estrogen as well as domperidone, an anti-nausea medication that increases levels of prolactin, which can facilitate lactation.