We Need to Talk About Abortion

If there is something unique to women that allows them to determine whether or not to abort a fetus/child then whatever that unique “thing” is, may also inspire others to insist that you are not fully entitled to make that determination. Freedom is a bitch, especially when one is free to countermand the expressed freedoms of others…

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Did I say others shouldn’t have a say? Enthusiastic activism is hardly an authoritarian act rather more effective lobbying.

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No, you didn’t. You said that people should “rage about abortion no more talking.”
So if you’re not talking, then you’re doing something. Writing perhaps. Or hand-wringing.

Violence can be quite a useful approach to achieve one’s aims. Maybe that’s a starting place… no?

That still doesn’t infer others can’t have a say. All my comment suggests is that the style of approach to the issue has been lacking in a more assertive approach. Apologetic defensive begging v expressing outrage make a huge difference in peoples perception of how seriously to take an issue.

What violence?

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And you are a school principal?

I am suggesting that violence can be a meaningful tactic.

Look, since gender is something assigned at birth then why not advocate for person-hood itself to be something assignable at birth. That way, people can choose to not assign their birth-product any form of person-hood (or gender) and then choke it out; at birth. In this way, both left and right can be happy. (I’m a people-pleaser by nature!) Birthing people will give birth but they will not assign person-hood to the birth-product. And then, the birthing-person can walk away while the medical person (or another passerby) can perform the coup de grace on the unsuspecting birthing product.

Problem solved.

Yeah, but I mostly work with youth in Asia…

Oh that makes sense, you are a weapon of youth destruction sent into enemy territory.

Almost there. But not quite.

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Fantastically said. And I think the core of why so few on either side want to talk about abortion. Both sides have allowed themselves to take positions that most Americans do not support. Best to talk about something else rather than upset your base.

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Thanos was right!
More seriously, Nature had spoken, at least until we eliminated smallpox. Historically, smallpox kept a fairly effective check on human population. It’s a horrible way to die, and I am glad we stopped it, I just hope conquering nature doesn’t doom the race in the end.

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Nature is never conquered. It merely waits. And strikes at another time and place.

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I chuckled, but that is a decent point. There is merit to the argument that we should not adopt the position of a cancer cell as a model for human advancement.

At the same time, we should probably also strive to not sound like a comic book villain when discussing abortion.

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Why does nobody want to talk about abortion?

Because abortion is shameful. And my line, misquoting President Clinton, is that:

“Abortion should be safe, legal, and shameful.”

But my larger point is that the writer does not admit that there might be Americans with a world view different from a Los Angeles entertainment lawyer.

You may think of “narrow choices of marriage and motherhood,” counselor, and “sexual partners outside of marriage,” “sex for pleasure,” without being “punished with a baby.” Other Americans think differently. And the question is: shall they have a voice in discussions about morality and law and life, the universe, and everything, or do only entertainment lawyers from Los Angeles and others in the educated ruling class have that privilege?

I was reading a book, counselor, a while back about life in the Middle Ages in England. It was telling to me that it was unthinkable to get married unless the couple had income and dowry enough to support married life. Was that eevil patriarchy, counselor, or was it the awful truth that back in the day, unless you were backed with inherited resources, you and your children would likely starve.

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Shame can be useful in society. I’m not sure if it’s possible to have a functioning society without some shame. Shame keeps me from quitting my job and living off welfare. We need social safety nets, but it should be slightly shameful to enforce charity off of others rather than support yourself. Otherwise, why would anyone work?

I’ve wondered lately, how much of the fanatical insistence that people not only accept every possible perversion, but celebrate and affirm it, is an attempt to deny their own shame.

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Problem is there’s no agreement & there never will be. What there is however is majority long term steadily increasing public opinion that gets more ‘squeamish’ the longer the pregnancy which is very much in alignment with when most abortions occur (> 95% in the first trimester) & there are also long established broadly accepted legal & philosophical arguments on personhood. So the idea that there’s ‘confusion’ is a myth used to conveniently muddy the waters & distract from the obvious majority public acceptability.

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Words and ideas and accepted terms change meaning…

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There is no agreement, never will be.
Public opinion gets more squeamish the longer the pregnancy.
Myth used to conveniently muddy the waters and distract from public acceptability.

Can see you are not content, but can’t see your position.
So what’s your personal position on this?
What are the points you dislike?
In your opinion how exactly would a good solution look like?

They don’t and they shouldn’t. The changing of meaning is the weapon of post-modernism, and it renders human communication borderline impossible, and without a reliable way to communicate…

Are you suggesting voter mandates are unacceptable 'cause opinions change?
Way to go for democratic paralysis & for the ‘privileged’ that benefit….

Generally when a fetus attains the first signs of personhood ie sentience would be the most logical point at which abortions should cease with viability restrictions in my view. Although there are very legitimate concerns regarding how medical treatment is compromised when abortion is illegal at all stages of pregnancy so there’s an argument for no limits provided its heavily regulated by the medical profession:

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